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Call For Help - Urgent
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GoldPatriot



Joined: 30 Dec 2011
Posts: 217
Location: Waldport, Oregon

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:53 pm    Post subject: Call For Help - Urgent Reply with quote

I just recieved this email 6 minutes ago:

Subject: urgent
Sent: Today at 10:04pm
Sent by: Glindberg

"Den if you get this please give me a call, 763-757-5929, John Crossmans wife has been arrested (w/o reading miranda rights) because she refused to give her liscense to the ranger and police officer, claiming "obstruction of justice". The USFS is trying to say they exceeded their 14 day camping, but they were prospecting and posted a location notice (which they have 90 days to file entry). They waited till 9 pm to come in (John ran back to town), I believe they came in knowing Nicole (aka Jan Doe) was there alone and basically said nope you don't need my info, thus was arrested (placed in handcuffs) for obstruction and the P.O. said he did not need to read miranda rights, which is on video. "


Gary:

First, she was under no legal obligation to give her name or other information to either the USFS or the police officer.  Second, regardless of her answer or failure to answer their questions, once detained for any questioning, she had to, under the law, be read her Miranda rights.  This not even a close call.  SCOTUS has ruled, that "any detention of a person, when not given the option of freely walking away, is in fact, under technical arrest and thus, must be read their Miranda rights, prior to any questioning.  By refusing her her civil rights, the Feds and State just lost the case and can be sued in both Federal and State courts, for civil rights violations.

Then there is the question of jurisdiction, which frankly, seems at this point to lean in favor of the miner and his wife.  In the way and time in which this attack was carried out, it smells of entrapment and abuse of power.  If the only issue was "camping", a simple warning would ordinarily be given.  This is the first case I have ever heard, where a camper was arrested without warning, over the failure to fully identify one's self.  If that were the law, almost every homeless person would now be behind bars.  No, this had nothing to do with "camping" or "ID".  From the information supplied, it also does not seem that "immediate action" was deemed necessary or legally proper, given the time frame permitted.  So what we have left is a badge heavy police officer, which most likely has no jurisdiction, getting mad that the woman didn't bow to his every command, no matter how unlawful the command was.    

More later as I ponder the other legal issues, but I would proffer this tonight;  Given the circumstances, issues and violations of law on the part of the Feds and State, any attorney worth their salt, should have this gal out of jail and all charges dropped within 5 minutes.  I can also tell you, that this case will NEVER see the inside of a courtroom and the agents know it.  Thus, the couple also have the charge, in addition to the civil rights violations, a very good case of harassment and abuse of power (authority).  The video can be a killer for the agents and every care and effort should be made immediately, to get a certified copy of the video for the defense.

More to come....
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Glindberg



Joined: 04 Jan 2012
Posts: 101
Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TITLE 18
CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
CHAPTER 7
ARRESTS AND SEIZURES OF PERSONS OR PROPERTY -- SPECIAL OFFICERS
18-705. Resisting and obstructing officers. Every person who wilfully resists, delays or obstructs any public officer, in the discharge, or attempt to discharge, of any duty of his office or who knowingly gives a false report to any peace officer, when no other punishment is prescribed, is punishable by a fine not exceeding one thousand dollars ($1,000), and imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding one (1) year.

This what she is being cited for, at the time she was working concentrates. She will be providing more information shortly.
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johncrossman



Joined: 04 Apr 2012
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:56 am    Post subject: Thank you for the support Reply with quote

I just wanted to take a moment to thank all involved in helping us out. We are all back in camp and going to continuing mining. My wife is going sit this morning and explain all that has transpired and we hope to get the video up soon.

Thank you all, John Crossman
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johncrossman



Joined: 04 Apr 2012
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:02 am    Post subject: Question about fourteen day stay limit Reply with quote

Can some one explain the proper or the unproper proccess if we stay over the the so called 14 day limit, yes we have located but, if we continue to stay they are threatening to impound our equipment. We just want to be clear as to where this goes, I don't want to lose our equipment or vehicles.

Thanks, john
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GoldPatriot



Joined: 30 Dec 2011
Posts: 217
Location: Waldport, Oregon

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glindberg wrote:
TITLE 18
CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
CHAPTER 7
ARRESTS AND SEIZURES OF PERSONS OR PROPERTY -- SPECIAL OFFICERS
18-705. Resisting and obstructing officers. Every person who wilfully resists, delays or obstructs any public officer, in the discharge, or attempt to discharge, of any duty of his office or who knowingly gives a false report to any peace officer, when no other punishment is prescribed, is punishable by a fine not exceeding one thousand dollars ($1,000), and imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding one (1) year.

This what she is being cited for, at the time she was working concentrates. She will be providing more information shortly.


Here is the problem that the USFS and the police officer (Sheriff Deputy?) has.  If I understand the timing correctly, the wife had already been advised that the encampment would be allowed until "Sunday".  At that point, the matter was fully and legally resolved.  If the arresting officer, after the fact, demanded ID, the USFS and the police agency simply don't have a pot to piss in.  The "demand", if made after the fact, was unlawful.

If at the beginning of the confrontation, ID was demanded in the investigation of a possible criminal investigation, your wife would be at risk. The timing of the "Demand" caught on tape, will determine the outcome of the case, if it ever goes to court, which is questionable at this point.

I do want to thank you, for immediately getting the word out to us, so that the victims had at least some support and help.  It's the right thing to do and I hope we get the point across to all miners... you do not have to go it alone.. ever.

Den
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Last edited by GoldPatriot on Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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NCrossman



Joined: 17 Jun 2012
Posts: 60
Location: IDAHO

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:42 am    Post subject: Urgent Reply with quote

Hi everyone.  Yes it is true what you read above.  I was arrested last night and released early this morning.  Please bare with me as I will do my best to remember, all that had transpired during this time.  I also know and understand that as many details as possible would be of great help to you.  So therefore, I will do my best.  

With that I want to state one more thing.  I AM A MINERAL ESTATE GRANTEE, not just a minor's wife or camp hostess!  I get out there and mineral extract like the rest of you guys.  So with that being said (not being feminist or sarcastic) I will greatly appreciate all of the help you can give me as soon as possible.  Just email me or PM me and I will give you my number if you would like to know more.  

THANKS TO GARY LINDBERG, I owe you one buddy!  As for this site and all the guys with the quick response to this case, I am truly thankful and honored to be a member of this site and a part of S.W.I.M.A. (south west idaho mining association)  FYI, they have now renamed me to be "jail bird" hehe...
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“The desire of gold is not for gold. It is for the means of freedom and benefit.”
Ralph Waldo Emerson
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GoldPatriot



Joined: 30 Dec 2011
Posts: 217
Location: Waldport, Oregon

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Ms. Jail Bird:

Now that you flew the coop on a lark, could you give us the details of how your goose got cooked.

Thanks

Den

Laughing
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NCrossman



Joined: 17 Jun 2012
Posts: 60
Location: IDAHO

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi this is the second half of a video footage and the grouping and arrest.  I will get the rest of the info soon as I have gone back to mining today.  


I am also having posting and computer issues.  It is also hard when you are working off tethering and mobile hotspots on the claim Wink

Here is the youtube link...

http://youtu.be/v5V_pMxtPms
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“The desire of gold is not for gold. It is for the means of freedom and benefit.”
Ralph Waldo Emerson


Last edited by NCrossman on Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:25 pm; edited 2 times in total
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GoldPatriot



Joined: 30 Dec 2011
Posts: 217
Location: Waldport, Oregon

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your Youtube link shows you took the video down.. in any case, it's not available.

Den
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NCrossman



Joined: 17 Jun 2012
Posts: 60
Location: IDAHO

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:27 pm    Post subject: THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP GUYS!!! Reply with quote

People involved:
M.E.G.: Nicole Crossman
Sheriff: R. TATILIAN
BLM AGENT #1 (MALE): JEFF WEISS
BLM AGENT#2 (FEMALE): ANNMARIE SHARKEY
ADA CO. DEPUTY FEMALE: ALIAS UNKNOWN SORRY
ADA CO. DEPUTY MALE: ALIAS UNKNOWN SORRY.

TIME FRAME: BETWEEN 845 PM (FROM WHEN THEY ARRIVED) TO (JAIL RELEASE) 240 AM

My husband (John Crossman) had arrived on a "BLM" 14 day stay campsite on Wednesday, July 11, 2012. This all happened on a Friday, July 20, 2012, that is only 9 days.
Ok! Whew! Here we go from the beginning.  
Weiss: Hi!  How’s it going tonight?  
Nicole: Good.  How are you?
Weiss: (shakes head) Uh, this is a nice set up here.
Nicole: Yes, it is comfortable.  
Weiss: Awesome, how many people can you feed with this set up?  
Nicole: When the kitchen cupboards are full, we can feed up to 20 people or so.
Weiss: No Kidding?  Wow, that’s amazing.  
Nicole: Yes, but we haven’t fed that many in a while. (chuckle)
Weiss: Alright!  Well we were just checking things out, I would say have a great weekend then.  
Nicole:  Thanks, oh yeah it is Friday, isn’t it?  
Weiss; Yes, have a good weekend.
Nicole: alright, you too.
Weiss: (backs off and heads to vehicle)
Sharkey: Um!  Can you tell me what it is that you are doing here?
Nicole: With what?
(there was our sluice box on the ground, and a pump motor / she points to them)
Sharkey: These here (pointing)
Nicole: oh That is a sluice box.
Sharkey: and this?
Nicole: that is a pump of some sort connected to a little motor…
Sharkey: oh I see. Um what is used for?
Nicole: That is my mineral exploration device.  I use it to extract certain minerals from a subsurface source.
Sharkey: oh I see.  Can I see your ID?
Nicole: For what? I don’t think you need to see that.  You are not law enforcement .
Sharkey: Yeah I do, I am a federal BLM AGENT.  If you want I can call the sheriff and he can get me your Id?
Nicole: Can you get your supervisor out here?  
Sharkey: Im calling the sheriff. “dispatch… Blm 807.. I need an officer out here just past alder creek bridge on the southfork road.”  I called the sheriff and he can get that info I need from you.
Nicole:  Well I want to inform you that you are trespassing on a federal mining claim.  
Sharkey:  I want you to show me your mining corner posts, signs and notices.
Nicole: No.  You are more than welcome to go and find them if you are so concerned of that, but the notice of location is located in that tree over there.
Sharkey: Can I have your ID?
Nicole: No I don’t think you need my ID?
Sharkey: Mam, this is public land with a 14 day stay limit on it. How much longer do you think you will be staying?  The rest of the weekend?
Nicole: I am not sure.  And this is actually public domain once I entered it to prospect.  Especially because I have a claim here!
Sharkey: This is public land.
Nicole: It WAS public land it is NOW Public DOMAIN.  Are you familiar with laws that have granted me to be entitled to this public domain?
Sharkey: I am aware of the mining laws!
Nicole: Really?  Which one?
Sharkey: The 1800 one.
Nicole:  There isn’t an 1800 mining law.
Sharkey: I own and manage all of these minerals you are trying to mine for.  I need to identify who I am speaking with. ID?
Nicole: There is no reason to see my ID.  Really?  You are telling me that you supersede the constitution of the United states?
Sharkey: Yes, I do.  I own ALL OF THESE MINERALS here.  
(NOTICE WEISS HAS NOT SAID A WORD)
Nicole: No, you are a surface management agency, and what we are doing is extracting minerals from a SUB-surface area.  
Sharkey:  I don’t think that will fly.  You will have to how me an ID or I will make an arrest.
Nicole: You don’t have that authority, you are a code enforcement, not a law enforcement officer.  
Sharkey:  No.  I am a federal agent and I get my authority from the Flpma
FROM THIS POINT ON WE HAVE A VIDEO LINK HERE http://youtu.be/MNQdrLyEu88

The second video starting at the arrest and search (#2) was already uploaded.  If it is a problem, we will have to try and upload that video again.
Now, the 2nd video shows threats by the sheriff Tatilian and the body search and violation.
AFTER THE SHOW:
The sheriff AND BLM agents stopped one mile from our campsite at a chevron station and parked their vehicles anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour with me in the back with tight cuffs on.
Tatilian: dispatch… Blm 807.. I have an unidentified female in custody…  
Dispatcher: What’s going on?
Tatilian: I have an unidentified female in custody who refused to give me her identification
Dispatcher:  Whats the charge?
Tatilian: Obstruction
Dispatcher: For what?
Tatilian: refusing to give me her ID?  I think she should go to ADA Co. Jail.  Probably til Monday and she can see a judge.
Dispatch OR HIS SUPERVISOR ( I WAS UNSURE HERE): Is Annmarie anywhere around you?
Tatilian: Yes. Hang on.
Sharkey: Dispatch… BLM 807
Dispatch: Hey uh, did you get those reports that were due this morning on (my/his) desk?
Sharkey: Ooh… I forgot.  I will get those to you as soon as I get back to the desk/office.
(WEISS, SHARKEY AND TATILIAN STAND OUT IN FRONT OF THE HOOD OF SHERIFF VEHICLE TALKING)
TATILIAN WALKS OVER TO MY DOOR; OPENS IT AND …
TATILIAN: ARE YOU WILLING TO GIVE ME YOUR ID YET?
NICOLE: NO, I STILL DON’T SEE A REASON AS TO WHY YOU NEED THAT.
TATILIAN: I AM PLACING YOU UNDER ARREST FOR OBSTRUCTION.
Nicole: For what?
Tatilian: we could keep going round and round about this
(HE SHUTS THE DOOR IN MY FACE.)
(He walks back over to WEISS AND SHARKEY, they are laughing and I am just sitting there waiting)
A FEW MINUTES LATER HE WALKS BACK OVER TO MY DOOR OPENS IT AND…
TATILIAN: LOOK, I CAN TAKE YOU BACK TO YOUR CAMP IF YOU JUST GIVE ME THE INFO I REQUESTED
NICOLE: WHAT AM I BEING CHARGED WITH?
TATILIAN: I TOLD YOU.
NICOLE: I DON’T KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS OR OBSTRUCTION TO WHAT?
TATILIAN: I TOLD YOU THAT I NEEDED TO TELL MY DISPATCH WHAT CALL I WAS ON AND AN IDENTIFICATION.
HE SHUTS THE DOOR AGAIN.
A FEW MINUTES GO BY AGAIN AND THEN HE COMES BACK OVER TO HIS SIDE OF THE VEHICLE GETS ON THE RADIO.
TATILIAN:  A NUMBER I CAN’T REMEMBER… I NEED AN AUTHORIZATION…
DISPATCH: WHAT’S UP.
TATILIAN: I HAVE AN UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE IN CUSTODY AND NEED AUTHORIZATION TO ALLOW BLM 807 TO TRANSPORT TO ADA CO. JAIL.
Dispatch: ok. Hold on…
(WAITING)
DISPATCH: Ok! Authorized BLM 807 TO TRANSFER AND TRANSPORT TO ADA CO. JAIL.
TATILIAN: ALRIGHTY. THANK YOU SIR.
Tatilian to sharkey: I can’t take her because I am off at two am.  It would be overtime.  
(HE GETS OUT.  TATILIAN, WEISS AND SHARKEY GATHER AGAIN AND TALK)
TATILIAN GETS HIS CLIPBOARD AND STARTS WRITING. (THE PAPER TIME HE WROTE WAS 22:17 pm, THAT I RECEIVED WITH MY BELONGINGS AT THE JAIL)
He walks to my side of the vehicle opens the door again: (RADIO IN HAND) “UM HAZEL OR BROWN, POSSIBLE HAZEL… APPROX 6FT…”
Nicole: CAN I ASK YOU A QUESTION?
TATILIAN: YES.
NICOLE: WHEN YOU BECAME A SHERIFF, YOU HAD TO TAKE AN OATH TO SERVE AND TO PROTECT, CORRECT?
TATILIAN: Yes and I am very proud to protect and serve!
Nicole: ok.  Then why aren’t you protecting me from these people who are harassing me for no reason at all?
Tatilian: Because I don’t believe they are harassing you.  The BLM doesn’t have codes or regulations that mandate you to provide an ID AND YOU DON’T HAVE TO; BUT WHEN I ASK YOU TO YOU KEEP REFUSING.
Nicole: because you haven’t clearly stated or articulated why I am arrested and clearly explained to me what my charges are!
Tatilian: I told you, OBSTRUCTION.
NICOLE: Of what though?
Tatilian: (this is fuzzy) obstruction of an investigation.
Nicole: nope! Not good enough for me.
(he closed the door again)
Again a few minutes later, he comes back and asks me to get out of the vehicle …
He helped me get one shoe back on and my long leg got stuck in the tiny back seat.  As I struggled with really tight cuffs on behind my back, he pulled my legs toward the door releasing the leg.  He stated:
Tatilian: Mam. I am transferring you to the custody of the BLM and they will transfer you to the ADA CO. JAIL.  WE ARE REMOVING THESE CUFFS AND PLACING YOU IN A BELT AND ATTACHING YOUR CUFFS TO IT.
WEISS PUT ME IN THE BELT AND CUFFS (FINALLY HE LOOSENED THEM!) He led me to a vehicle that had this seat in a cage and placed my seat belt on.
WEISS WAS TRAINING AS HE STATED HE HADN’T DONE A TRANSFER BEFORE.  SHARKEY SAID TO MARK MILEAGE AND WHEN CROSSING CO. LINES, HE IS TO RADIO DISPATCH AND LET THEM KNOW.  
STARTING MILEAGE WAS 5060 AND ENDED AT 5110. WEISS RADIOED THIS TO DISPATCH
WEISS: DISPATCH STARTING MILEAGE AND TIME.
NOT A WORD WAS SAID FOR THE ENTIRE TRIP.  OTHER THAN SHARKEY TO TEACH WEISS HOW TO OPERATE THE COMPUTER IN THE VEHICLE.  THROUGH LITTLE HOLES IN THE CAGE, I PROBABLY WAS SITTING IN THE DOG KENNEL PART OF THE VEHICLE. HEHE Anyway, I saw SHARKEY ENTER IN THE COMPUTER ABOUT THE BLM 807 AT SOUTHFORK AND ALDER, TRANSPORT... THE COMPUTER CLOSED.  
THE SILENCE CONTINUED…
WE ARRIVED  AT THE ADA CO. JAIL, AND SHARKEY INFORMED WEISS THAT THE JAIL KNOWS HER AS “ROBERTS807” AND SLOWLY PULLED INTO THE SALLYPORT.  
SHARKEY GETS OUT AND OPENS HATCH TO VEHICLE. EXPLAINS THAT WEISS AND HER MUST REMOVE THIGH TACTICAL HOLSTER WITH FIRE ARMS, TAZERS AND ALL MAGS. … WEISS DOES SO!
WEISS COMES OVER TO MY DOOR AND STATES THAT WE ARE READY TO BOOK.
HE THEN WALKS ME OVER TO THE DOOR WITH A SIGN THAT SAYS: HAVE ALL FIRE ARMS REMOVED AND PAPERWORK COMPLETED!”
The voice over the intercom stated agent Sharkey (they know her well apparently) please remove your mags.  Is your paper work done?
Sharkey: No! Hold on.  
Weiss: (to me) mam, please have a seat here. (on a bench)
Sharkey fills something out and then takes off her mags
Weiss: (to me) Mam, come we are ready.
Nicole: Ok, I stand up and electronic door opens and Weiss leads me in with sharkey following.
They stand there and converse with an ADA CO. DEPUTY.  
I don’t know his name. but he was really nice to me and said that we had an option to let the BLM agents go and he can work with me or I could sit in Jail until I see a judge on Monday.
Nicole: Officer, I have no problem working with you and thank you for being so nice to me.
Officer: no problem, LET ME SEND THEM ON THEIR WAY! Just stay seated here and the female officer here will conduct a body search.
Nicole: …
The two BLM seemed like they left…. The saga continues.
I get through another vigorous “pat down” and the question the female officer asked was why are you in here?
Nicole: I still don’t know.
Officer:  They say obstruction but they don’t say what for.
Nicole: I know  and that is why I am confused.
OFFICER: I NEED YOUR NAME, SOCIAL AND BIRTHDATE…. ADDRESS PLEASE. PHONE NUMBER AND EMERGENCY CONTACT.
NICOLE: I GIVE IT TO HER. ( SHE NEVER ASKED FOR MY ID)
Officer: ok. Well unfortunately it takes a long time to get out of here, are you willing to just bond out?  
Nicole: yes!..
Officer: (whispers to me) This is ridiculous…
Nicole: I know.
So I go to make my phone call.  Talk to my husband and sit down.  
The officer wanted to get my prints.  I was talking to him about the technology in those things now and he looked at me and said, why are you here?
Nicole: I don’t know, is finger printing normal?  Will this show on my record?
Officer: no, its just a crime database… it maybe a misdemeanor. But don’t quote me….
About 45 minutes later, there comes SHARKEY TROLLING THROUGH THE WAITING ROOM.  GLANCES AT ME AND EXITS.  
THOUGH I CAN’T SAY FOR SURE, BUT I THINK SHE GOT THE INFO SHE WANTED ON ME…. I WAITED FOR BAIL MONEY AND MY BELONGINGS AND I WAS LET OUT AROUND 240AM…
JUST FOR THE RECORD… I NEVER SHOWED MY ID TO ANYONE. THE ADA CO. DEPUTIES DIDN’T CARE ABOUT ID’S.  THE BOISE CO. SHERIFF MADE A FUSS THAT NEVER SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED!
FOR THIS, I WAS HUMILIATED IN FRONT OF MY CHILDREN AND EVERY SINGLE MALE PERSON WHO IS IN CAMP WITH ME.  THE BLM FEMALE FORCEFULLY GROUPED, POKED, PRODDED AND MORE IN MANY INAPPROPRIATE PLACES.  ON THE 2ND VIDEO IT IS HEARD THAT SHE ASKED TO TOUCH MY GROIN AREA TWICE…. WHY?????????????
THEN TO GET TO THE SALLYPORT…. MY PANTS ARE FALLING DOWN AND WEISS DOES NOT LET ME OR HELP ME PULL UP MY PANTS….
ALSO, QUESTION? IF BLM HAS NO LAW ENFORCEMENT AUTHORITY, THEN WHY WERE THEY ALLOWED TO TRANSPORT AN ASSUMED SUSPECT TO THE CO. JAIL?  
THE DISTRESS THAT HAS BEEN PLACED ON ME AND MY FAMILY AND FRIENDS IS INCREDIBLY SAVAGE.  THERE WILL BE MORE AS I REMEMBER DURING THE DAYS TO COME.  

MY ADRENALINE IS STILL GOING, BUT I AM NOT A QUITTER.  I AM AN M.E.G.!

I AM A FEMALE, BUT I BELIEVE IN THIS WITH ALL OF MY HEART.  I AM A MINER AND WE ARE NO DIFFERENT FROM ONE ANOTHER.  THANKS AND I WILL TRY TO GET THOSE LINKS WORKING VERY SOON.  SORRY FOR THE DELAY, WE ARE ON THE GOLD! Smile

_________________
~N

“The desire of gold is not for gold. It is for the means of freedom and benefit.”
Ralph Waldo Emerson


Last edited by NCrossman on Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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