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I've been cited
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Wallrat



Joined: 24 Feb 2012
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:48 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

you may be right about the next harassment but I'll videotape all future 'meetings' with the Forest Circus, and anything I'm doing in the future was on the NOI that I gave them. Since they didn't approve or disapprove it, then I'm thinking they have no leg to stand on. I shouldn't get too cocky, but a double win first time at bat is making me feel pretty optimistic. Luck to you on your upcoming trial. Go get 'em.
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beebarjay



Joined: 30 Dec 2011
Posts: 230
Location: Central Oregon Coast & Az

PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Filing and performance (per law) of a valuable Mineral Mining Claim requires the intent to conduct the activity of mining and maintaining said mining claim in accordance with the law(s).  I believe you can contend that your annual assessment work is your proof of intent per the law that dictates intent.  So having an approved active mining claim is in fact an NOI per my contention.  "Notice of Intent"  Seems pretty simple to me.  But then again there are a lot of dummies out there that need reminded of the law(s).  


bejay
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Hefty



Joined: 30 Dec 2011
Posts: 132
Location: sacramento ca

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wallrat wrote:
No idea why I'd be sent to the Boise courthouse, except that it's a Federal citation. I was all ready for court, with McClure, a definition of "Significant Disturbance" [from 36 CFR, section 9], then I got a call from the Prosecutor, where I told him there was no significant disturbance, and so I had no idea why they cited me. We talked a bit about it, then in a couple of weeks I got another call............DISMISSED! So, it would not have happened without the knowledge I found here. As  a side note, after my citation I went down and put in an NOI. At the time there was a temporary ban on either approving or disapproving NOI's because of the Karuk suit. So, after 15 days, there was still no action on it, and I went back to work. Really, this was a win/win. No NOI to operate under, and a dismissal. I owe you guys a bunch, and can't express how thankful I am for all the help.



Congrats on the DISMISSED!
Did the Prosecutor give you a reason for it? Did he send you any paperwork with the reason? Or just by word of mouth?

Hefty
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NCrossman



Joined: 17 Jun 2012
Posts: 60
Location: IDAHO

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Advice. Make sure your recording device is:
1. Easily accessed
2. Easy to flip on & to operate
3. Easy to record and is working
and finally,
4. You have great image quality, audio quality and no one is talking over it. I know it is hard but clear audio is better than chaotic audio.

My lesson learned.

See you around in Idaho City!!
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“The desire of gold is not for gold. It is for the means of freedom and benefit.”
Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Wallrat



Joined: 24 Feb 2012
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

beebarjay wrote:
Filing and performance (per law)


While I read and understand the words, I just want to make sure I'm on the same page with you here. By this I assume you mean doing the required assessment work, after legally staking and filing?

beebarjay wrote:

of a valuable Mineral Mining Claim requires the intent to conduct the activity of mining and maintaining said mining claim in accordance with the law(s).  I believe you can contend that your annual assessment work is your proof of intent per the law that dictates intent.



How does proof of intent relate to the supposed requirement to file an NOI or POO? I can understand that it shows you intend to hold and maintain the claim, but you lose me beyond that. You're saying that simply having and maintaining a claim is a de-facto notice of intent to the USFS that you intend to mine it, and so you needn't file one with them? Does that fly in a court?

beebarjay wrote:
 So having an approved active mining claim is in fact an NOI per my contention.  "Notice of Intent"  Seems pretty simple to me.  But then again there are a lot of dummies out there that need reminded of the law(s).  
Yep...I'm one of them.
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beebarjay



Joined: 30 Dec 2011
Posts: 230
Location: Central Oregon Coast & Az

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Give thought to the words in everything a miner does.  Understand all the relevant meaning and definitions of the words in all the laws/rules/regs.  When a claim is filed in accordance with the laws, the filling is for what?  Is it just to have the mineral rights?  Or does it intail more?  Does the act of having a claim intail working the claim?  What is working a claim mean?  Does it mean you are going to extract the mineral?  Are you required to perform?  Is not having a valid claim create the intent to mine/extract the mineral from the surface/subsurface?  So why would one be required to submit an NOI?

Then of course one must consider who the NOI would be submitted to?.....The USFS or BLM?  How does either agency take an authoritative position over the actions of the miner?  The miner is on Public Domain not Public Lands.  Both agencies are Public Lands management agencies.  

But the point is that the miner is granted the rights to perform.  No where in the laws does it say anything about the need to notify either agency that you are going to perform....unless your mining activity does something that is unduly needed for mining.  Of course the agencies want you to submit to their authority....because once you do you have entered into an agreement to abide by their rules.

In order to maintain the Mineral Estate Grant. under the color of law, one must hold the claim correctly and ellude any attempts by agencies to intrude on the lawful activity of mining.  

So the key is to know all the laws/rules/regs and specifically all the savings clauses that keep a miner in a position of maintaing his Grant.

I just posted a lot of information on another thread regarding the POO and NOI.  If an agency makes a request for an action by the miner one must ask "by what authority is the request made?".......Then it is up to the miner to show why he is NOT subject to such a request.  (If any request is made ask for the specific CFR used to make the request)  The laws/rules/regs are all on this forum and I would suggest studying all the information provided and placing the information in a portfolio that is easy to access.  But it would be wise to gather all the savings clauses that show where agencies fail to have authority over the miner and his activities necessary for mining.

As miners we would like to have each of our situations answered by others.  We would like to have someone tell us exactly what to do and when.  But the reality is that the miner must know all the laws/rules/regs and how to apply them in each unique situation.  

The earlier reference to dummies was not directed towards miners, but to the agency members/staff who act as an "authority" where none exists.

The most common mistake made by miners is to assume that when a government agent proposes authority they fail to understand that the miner does not come under the authority of the agencies unless the miner is doing more than just mining, and doing other things that are not part of an act necessary to mine.

It is the agency that brings forth "significant" as it is not written in the law(s) governing mining.  
Keep in mind the agencies attempt to obtain control and authority where none exists.  It is up to the miner to convey to such agencies that the Mineral Estate Grant is the law and the agencies are in the wrong when they ( gov agent)attempt to intrude on a miner who has maintained his granted rights.

The miner/claim holder/prospector has been given Congressional protection from such agencies as the BLM and USFS, but it is up to the miner to maintain that position.  Agencies are not there to help a miner do it....they are always there attempting to intrude.

bejay
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Hefty



Joined: 30 Dec 2011
Posts: 132
Location: sacramento ca

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good Job on your last two posts Bejay.
As for me... I am done digging for info on mining laws. I am going back to digging for GOLD!
Have all my material on this subject in my folder that comes with me. I am getting fat aka Hefty  sitting here reading. I do feel that we as a group have accomplished alot on this forum and I feel honored to be a part.

Hefty
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beebarjay



Joined: 30 Dec 2011
Posts: 230
Location: Central Oregon Coast & Az

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Understand Hefty.  Beings we were a couple of the first to get into all this stuff it is understandable that you have been able to gain great knowledge from this web site.

You are one of the heroes after the fact: as you successfully utilized the "law" info to place the USFS in need of redemption.  Glad you have gained the knowledge necessary to continue mining; or challenge those who dare to intrude on your lawful rights.  I am sure you will continue to check in from time to time and I know you will be watching the Oregon challenges.

Good luck digging in the dirt/streams for that yellow gold.  I have a new challenge awaiting me on an Az claim and must utilize even new legal technical moves to secure my possession.  Thus it seems there are never ending situations that arise requiring a great amount of knowledge and and skill.

Stay in touch and feel free to jump onto the forum when you find the urge.

bejay
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Wallrat



Joined: 24 Feb 2012
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spamming asshat.
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Me Gold Seeker



Joined: 30 Dec 2011
Posts: 29
Location: South Carolina

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wallrat wrote:
Spamming asshat.


The spammer has been removed/banned from the forum, also all of his posts were deleted.


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