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needing help

 
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RD Round



Joined: 26 Sep 2012
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:21 pm    Post subject: needing help Reply with quote

As a claim owner on a western Colorado river I find my self at odd's with the BLM, all of a sudden they want anyone who is working on the river to fill out a notice and sign it so they will know where we are on the river see link http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/med...onal%20Placer%20non-motorized.pdf
also,
http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/med...eational%20Placer%20motorized.pdf
I feel as a claim owner when I am on my own claim I do not need to  fill out this form, some of the folks working on the river dredging and sluching were given ticketts by the BLM with fines up to $150. now I understand we are being told that we can only mine in the river chanel you must be in the water, and the worst of all any thing we do out on the bank is being called, Undue and unnecessary degradation, to the BLM ranger this means digging anywhere out side the river channel,
How do I fight this? can you show me laws where he and the BLM are wrong, please help,
RD Round
rdkr@tds.net
Grand Jct. Colorado
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Hefty



Joined: 30 Dec 2011
Posts: 132
Location: sacramento ca

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RD Round...not to make this sound bad...all the info you you need is right here in this forum...lots of reading and understanding is sometimes hard.
Read and reread until you do understand. Make copies of the laws, keep in a folder with you on your claim to show them. The paperwork you show in the links state "recreational" Drop that word from any of your statements to them...you are prospecting. Period

Do not sign or fill out anything from them!
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Tikadosi



Joined: 13 Oct 2015
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel it very much and most excellent.
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Wallrat



Joined: 24 Feb 2012
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Hefty...spend time reading every thread on this site, then reread them until you "get it". Have a law folder in your rig with you at all times, and you will have no need to fear the Feds. Three cases you need to know: US v Tierney (Arizona), US v Lex, US v McClure (among many). Also, never file an NOI on your claim. That is a mistake that is difficult to undo.

 There is no other way to beat them. You need to know the law better than they do, know the history of the mining laws, as well as reading the FLPMA, which is where they get the "undue and unnecessary" from. It is mentioned in several threads here. By spring you can be a thorn in their backside. Luck to you.
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GoldPatriot



Joined: 30 Dec 2011
Posts: 219
Location: Waldport, Oregon

PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unlike the Forrest Service, BLM and the DEQ, we miners can not invent "laws", "rules" and "procedures".  Thus we are dependent on Congressional mining laws that has been upheld by both the lower courts and SCOTUS.

By learning the mining laws, those that are targeted by the USFS, BLM and DEQ are better prepared to seek counsel and make sure that the counsel defends you under the REAL mining laws.

We now see that the Feds and the states are losing in even the lower court, because the defendants and counsel force the court to judge the case on established congressional mining laws, not the unlawful "policies" of the feds or States.

My friends have said it the best, "read, learn and make a mining law folder that you keep with your mining equipment.. so you always have it with you, on site.

Now that you've found this site, there is no reason to ever be afraid, pushed around or threatened.

Den
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Wallrat



Joined: 24 Feb 2012
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RD, I read the docs you linked, and they are clearly aimed at "recreational" miners (those who volunteer into the USFS jurisdiction), and see that they are also aimed at totally preventing mining. FUGGEDABOUTIT!

 Here is a link I found while trying to find a relevant casefile for you: http://westernminingalliance.org/...lations/united-states-vs-langley/

While not exactly on point, it has a LOT of good info you need to know.  Click the links, save the court decisions, and learn all the relevant laws pertaining to you and your mining rights.
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digsdirt



Joined: 22 Aug 2015
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Article 11. of the Blm's Recreational Placer Notification states that you must get permission from the claim owner, so I believe this would identify claim owners as an entity to which this form did not apply. They could apply their regulations to you as a third party prospecting on another claim owners  property but not as the claim owner. Familiarize your self with all the info on this site and remember that if you don't exercise your rights and tell them that you WANT to exercise those rights, some times over and over, the BLM and FS agents will often forget that you have them. Good luck and keep us posted
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beebarjay



Joined: 30 Dec 2011
Posts: 230
Location: Central Oregon Coast & Az

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The key word is "recreational".  If you are mining you are simply mining Most often the BLM sand USFS will term you an operator.  There is no such word in mining law. If you are on another person's mineral deposit property, you are however, probably one of the following:

1. A tenant, by way of lease or similar arrangement.

2. An agent, by way of written conveyance of the property owner to have some form of authority, while not necessarily having any sort of property interest.

3. A guest or visitor.

Unless you have some sort of written arrangement with the owner, chances are, you are just a guest/visitor.

If you are asking this question because you are being leaned on to file some sort of notice/plan by the agency while working the claim, probably the easiest way to address this is to simply respond by saying: "I'm a guest of the owner and as a visitor, I have no lawful authority to enter into any agreement with your agency".

If you lack authority over the land, the agency cannot lawfully make ANY demands upon you.

This makes for some interesting dialogue with the USFS does it not? And here we see how miners fail to get down in the trenches and challenge the very agencies that tell us they want us to do things. But then again most miners find it easier to oblige the agencies than to really learn how to challenge their authority!

beebarjay
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